What surplus powders will work in the 450?

[Stealthshooter]

Decided to make a separate thread for this topic. So far it looks like we have a couple powders that will work. Are there any others and has anyone had any experience with these two?

1. wc297
2. wc820

[Stealthshooter]

Eight pounds of WC297 for $89.99 http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/It ... Name=WC297

Eight pounds of WC820 for $100 http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html

[BD1]

The bulk of the powder I've burnt in the last 15 years has been surplus, and I've had had great success with my lot of WC297 in the .450B to date; WC820 not so much.

If you are not familiar with the use of surplus powder in general there are a couple of things you need to think about:

1. Powders become "surplus" for several reasons. Wars end, Militaries retire rounds, (the.45 acp, 30-06, .30 carbine and 8mm come to mind), but some of these lots of powder became "surplus" because they fell so far outside of the design parameters that they couldn't be safely loaded in the target cartridges.

2. Lot to lot variation can be significant enough to be dangerous. There are lot #s of WC820 fast enough to load in the .45acp,(similar to Blue Dot), and there are lot #s slow enough for heavy bullet loads in the .44 mag, (similar to H110/296). There were two lots of WC852 on the market at the same time that had such different burn rates that the jugs were labeled "slow" or "fast" to avoid inadvertent substitution.

2. The pressure curve may or may not track the curve of the "comparable canister grade" quoted by the supplier. I still have some of the slowest lot of WC820 I've seen. It tracks H110 very closely in the .44 mag using bullets up to about 240 grains, but as you go up in bullet weight it starts to act more like AA #9. Using it with the lighter bullet weights and then extrapolating those results to load 310 grainers could lead to big trouble.

3. The granule shape and deterrent coating may bear no resemblance at all to the " comparable canister grade" quoted by the supplier. Sometimes this is good, (WC860 looks like 296 and flows through a measure much better than H1000 or 7828), some times this is bad (the surplus powder roughly equivalent to HS7 looks like hockey pucks and doesn't flow through anything I've found). The burn rate variation due to temperature can be much different as well. My .270WBY loads using WC860 are a full 200 fps faster at 75 deg than they are at 30 deg, a temperature difference you'd never notice using H1000 or RL25.

I'm certainly not trying to discourage anyone from using surplus powders. I'm just saying that there are some considerations and calibrations involved. Also, this stuff isn't going for $4.00 a pound anymore.

BD

[Stealthshooter]

Thanks BD1 I was wondering about consistency. If I used all 8 pounds how much different will the next 8 pounds be. I know there is a difference between lots in every powder but the commercial stuff will at least be within safe limits. It's still very tempting to buy some of the 297!!

[Hoot]

Thanks BD1 I was wondering about consistency. If I used all 8 pounds how much different will the next 8 pounds be. I know there is a difference between lots in every powder but the commercial stuff will at least be within safe limits. It's still very tempting to buy some of the 297!!

Good Lord, do you plan on cranking out 1,400 450b loads in the near future? That's about how many you can do with an 8lb cannister.

Hoot

[BD1]

You'd be surprised how much powder you can go through if you work at it I'm about 3/4 the way through my first jug of 297. I'm kicking myself for not buying more of the WC852(s) when it was $6/lb, or the HPC-18, (surplus 231) when it was $56 for an 8lb jug. I still have at least one jug of the WC860 that I bought for $4/lb. Somehow the other 3 jugs went "up in smoke"

My stock of surplus powder, lead that I've scrounged and bulk primers bought in the '90s allow me to load a box of 50 .45acp for $1.50
In about 10,000 rounds I'll be feeling the pinch.
BD

[Stealthshooter]

Thanks BD1 I was wondering about consistency. If I used all 8 pounds how much different will the next 8 pounds be. I know there is a difference between lots in every powder but the commercial stuff will at least be within safe limits. It's still very tempting to buy some of the 297!!

Good Lord, do you plan on cranking out 1,400 450b loads in the near future? That's about how many you can do with an 8lb cannister.

Hoot

I plan on shooting this baby a lot!! In the spring/summer I'll use it for some rockchuck removal!!! Nothing like a good red mist in the morning!!!

Ya also never know when reloading supplies might become scarce. There are a couple shops around here that are still limiting how many primers a single customer can buy.

[wildcatter]

Thanks BD1 I was wondering about consistency. If I used all 8 pounds how much different will the next 8 pounds be. I know there is a difference between lots in every powder but the commercial stuff will at least be within safe limits. It's still very tempting to buy some of the 297!!

BD is giving you the straight scoop, as to how much two different lots can very, the difference can be tremendous. You'll need to re-verify each lot, for the loads you intend to shoot. Which is a good reason and one BD wishes he'd have done, to buy more than one jug, but you'd better find out if each jug is from the same lot and when they come you'd better get out the Sharpie Marker and label each jug, in ten years you'll have forgotten the details and you'll have accumulated more powder, so write lots of notes on the label..

..t

[pitted bore]

. . . when they come you'd better get out the Sharpie Marker and label each jug, in ten years you'll have forgotten the details and you'll have accumulated more powder, so write lots of notes on the label.

Absolutely! Especially the FORGETTING!

When I get a new powder jug, on one line in a notebook I write the powder type & mfr, the lot number, the amount purchased, the source, and the date. Then I assign my sequence number to the line in the notebook, and write the same number on the can with a Magic Marker. The recording takes a couple of minutes and saves a lot of headaches and headscratching later.

I don't write down the cost, because I'm pretty sure I don't want to know what it all might add to.

I use the same sequence number when I record info about a bunch of reloaded ctgs.

So, I find that the 296 used for some of my loads reported on the forum came in a can from Jay's in Clare MI in June 1991, and was lot no. 29610-OH12B. (Hey, I only used a bit of it for some M1 Carbine loads until I got my 450 in 2009.) The same quick system can be used for other components too.

There are inventory apps for iphones; convenience and permanence should be considered and balanced for the handwritten vs electronic records.

--Bob

[BD1]

Actually, I'm wishing I'd have bought more than the 16 lbs of WC852, and the 24 lbs of HPC-18, when they were available. These days the price difference isn't near the incentive it used to be.
BD