More Barnes 275 XPB

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More Barnes 275 XPB

Postby Hoot » Fri May 04, 2012 10:51 pm

Lately, there has been an uptick in interest in the Barnes 275 XPB.

Here are some links to previous testing I've did last summer:

XPB Part 1

XPB Part 2

XPB Part 3

XPB Water Shots

A couple of weeks ago, having obtained some slightly slower powders in W296 and AA1680 and being obsessed with QuickLoad, I set out to continue where I left off last year, by characterizing real world results versus QL's predicted behavior. The idea was to attempt to calibrate QL and then see how subsequent load changes matched up with predictions.

The initial test was loading all three powders as close as possible to the QL predicted max SAAMI pressure and record the velocities obtained along with some accuracy assessment. In last year's work, I only used Lil Gun and judging from QL's prediction, took the loads a lot further than I begin with this year. So what follows is a bit of de-evolution, but it establishes a base line. Great accuracy from this bullet can be achieved and more so the higher the safe velocity goes. There's SAAMI safe. There's real-world safe and never the twain's shall meet.

The only default QL parameter for the 450B that I altered was the fired case capacity measured in grains of water. Mine were 59.7gr versus QL's 60.0gr.
Here's the baseline performance. Remember SAAMI recommends not loading the 450B past 38.5K psi.

Image

The resulting groups were interesting:

35.9gr Lil Gun
Image

36.6gr W296
Image

40.5gr AA1680
Image

Both Lil Gun and AA1680 flew close to the velocity predicted by QL, but W296 wound up flying a lot slower. I can not explain this. The higher velocity afforded by Lil Gun paid off in a pretty good group. Foot Note: I forgot to bring any fouling loads and had to utilize the first shot of Lil Gun. As is often the case with fouling shots, they can fly a lot differently than subsequent shots, even with my having patched all the Kroil out beforehand.

For those considering loading the 275 XPB, these can be starting guidelines. I am certain all three can be loaded hotter safely, based upon last year's experience. From those same experiences, I know faster translates to smaller groups. I'll leave determining what that limit is, to you. I intend to certainly up both the W296 and AA1680 loads until I feel uncomfortable and I will report in as I make more headway. We're in a weather pattern lately where it seems to be beautiful during the week and rainy on the weekends. The NWS has not been too stellar with their predictions and I will try to always have some loads ready to go, when a window of opportunity presents itself, as opposed to my normal "load 'em up as soon as it looks promising and rush over to the range."

Keep in mind that often there are two or more velocities where a given barrel will shoot the same bullet into small 5-shot, 100 yard groups as a function of Optimum Charge Weight, Optimum Barrel Time and Optimum Luck. Given the data already achieved with Lil Gun, my emphasis will be upon W296 and AA1680. The latter excites me as it can take better advantage of my full size 20" barrel as opposed to the carbine length 16". Proof is always in the pudding and Lil Gun certainly is up to the task, despite being the faster of the three powders. It's past and present results will serve as the rubric that I hold the other two powders up to.

Hoot

EDIT: Additional Tests further on in the thread.
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Re: More Barnes 275 XPB

Postby kottke_35 » Sat May 05, 2012 1:07 am

Thanks for the write up Hoot. My testing will be done with a 16 carbine barrel so we'll see how that goes. I'm looking forward to your future write ups!

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Re: More Barnes 275 XPB

Postby commander faschisto » Sat May 05, 2012 4:05 pm

Keep 'em coming, Hoot & kottke_35...the 275XPBs really should be the "standard" load for the 450b...let's see how far you can take them in the two barrel lengths. Lots of us will be following the results, I'm sure.
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Re: More Barnes 275 XPB

Postby wildcatter » Sat May 05, 2012 7:15 pm

commander faschisto wrote:Keep 'em coming, Hoot & kottke_35...the 275XPBs really should be the "standard" load for the 450b...let's see how far you can take them in the two barrel lengths. Lots of us will be following the results, I'm sure.


Got that right, but then again, there really isn't any trouble with the FTX's, they kill everything they touch and except for the really Big Critters (Hugh Bison), they are the standard for Bang/Flop and Accuracy, are there Factory Loads, for any cartridge, that consistently print as well (I'm reminded of the Outdoor Chanel Crew, that shot a real Zero inch group and how many Sub-MOA's have we seen here?). Having said all that, it'll be hard to get away from the 200 & 275ge XPB's, when Long-Range & Terminal Performance, on Big-Dangerous-Game, is the mission (200's for Deer on down, and 275's for Elk and up.).

This Fall, I've signed on to Elk/Bear Hunt in Wyoming, all on Horse-Back. There is Moose all over the area we plan to hunt in, and a few Griz. As Momma Moose run more folks up trees than any number of Griz encounters, I plan on having 325gr Barnes Busters for the Close-Quick-Encounters (CQE). With a simple Mag-Change, to the 275's, running the charging handle to unload the single, left-over BB, I'll also be loading the 275 XPB's, all in the same stroke. At that point, I'll be instantaneously ready, with a full magazine, for the cross-valley shots.

FYI..For that pig hunt wherein Barnes took those kids on (viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1634), I loaded ammo for that hunt (275's) that clocked 2000fps and I had loads, at the range Lab, that went 2100fps, from my 20" standard Factory Weapon, of course my weapon is set up quite differently than yours. Besides the loads themselves, the changes include a rifle length gas porting system.

No, I'm not going to recommend the 2100fps load, it's close to the limit and if you're not paying very close attention to detail, there's going to be trouble. Just because I can do it, doesn't mean you can, so don't even try!!

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Re: More Barnes 275 XPB

Postby Hoot » Sat May 05, 2012 11:03 pm

In case you're wondering?

A) It stormed all day, so no additional details and it's supposed to storm tomorrow. Good news is Monday thru Wednesday next week. When I'm back at work. Blue Jay pretty days. Mild temps. This is like the 4th weekend of precipitation with beautiful days in between. I should take up bowling. :roll:

B) The real head scratcher is why the Lil Gun loads grouped left while the other two grouped center? You got me! Being more powerful, they did torque the rifle a little bit more, but they were all from the same setup and even shot round robin to randomize a "hot streak". Has to be barrel resonance I suspect. Not sure how high I'll be able to go with them compared to last year. I purged my old Lil Gun and bought two new bottles. I also got two new bottles of 1680 and two W296. Each pair were from the same lot. So, if i find a real winner, at least I'm assured of repeating the results for some time to come. Watching another severe group of cells moving in on me on the radar as I type this. Everything is saturated right now and all the rain has given our state bird the Mosquito, a reproductive boom. I suspect that if I get out soon, those pests will do their darnedest to add injury to insult at the local range, which is situated next to a slough on one side and woods on the other. The state summer cologne is Cutters. ;)

To put the QL aspect into perspective. In the case of W296, I can tweak a couple of the QL parameters for that powder to try and compensate the recommended load to deliver a particular target velocity. Then again, the next step or two up may move the entire dynamics of the powder into it's preferred conditions and it will start delivering closer performance like the other two did, to predicted performance. It's not always as neat and trim with synthetic models. I have great expectations for the 1680, but then again, Lil Gun sure did fine. I'd like to get my cases more full of whichever propellent I use as there's always a positive dividend for that. It is not however the end all factor as the N110 did just that with the 300 DeepCurls, yet performance was not too good. All of this is an equation of many variables. Chasing the "magic combination" is what keeps me coming back.

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Re: More Barnes 275 XPB

Postby commander faschisto » Sun May 06, 2012 4:00 pm

Better luck next weekend, Hootster...while you're chasing the "magic combination", the State Bird will be chasing you! Been there, done that too...on the Wisconsin side of the river. I'm sure you've encountered the phenomenon of the "humming pine tree"? :o Good luck with the 1680...should be interesting.
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Re: More Barnes 275 XPB

Postby Hoot » Sun May 06, 2012 9:24 pm

commander faschisto wrote:Better luck next weekend, Hootster...while you're chasing the "magic combination", the State Bird will be chasing you! Been there, done that too...on the Wisconsin side of the river. I'm sure you've encountered the phenomenon of the "humming pine tree"? :o Good luck with the 1680...should be interesting.


Not to get too far off course, but I encountered the humming phenomena fishing up in central Ontario.The mosquitoes up there made the ones in MN look tame. Lying in our tents in the woods at dusk, the sound level was incredible. We had a tent with a main room for sleeping and a screened in porch area that you stepped into when you went out where we soaked ourselves with high DEET content repellants before going outside of it. The only problem was taking a dump. Had to learn to like stoking up a cigar and fogging all around me during the vulnerable moment. Waiting until it was really imminent before heading out became standard practice. I knew cigars were good for something. ;)

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Re: More Barnes 275 XPB

Postby Jeepejeep » Mon May 07, 2012 7:39 am

Have you tried the Thermocell? I used one when I was bear hunting in Maine and it worked great. There was a cloud of mosquitoes just buzzing around about 3 feet from me but not one landed on me. Kept the black flies away too. I just used it again this past weekend while turkey hunting in NY. I'm sold on them.
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Re: More Barnes 275 XPB

Postby commander faschisto » Mon May 07, 2012 10:15 am

Sorry about the hijack...my bad. Good info, though, concerning seegars and Thermocell (I've always wondered about those things...). AND NOW, BACK TO OUR TOPIC!! ;)
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Re: More Barnes 275 XPB

Postby kottke_35 » Thu May 10, 2012 3:32 am

How is the weather looking this weekend Hoot?

Good enough to get some range time in?

B.
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